drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

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  118

  I need proof for my wife that NW Translation is not correct

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what scriptures would you reccomend, to prove nwt is not reliable?.

  please help, i need a reason for my wife to start reading other translation.

  i want to start chronological reading of nt with her, to show her wtbs is not a mediator for us.. thanks.

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  drew sagan

  Silly how you think there can be a separation between Jewish beliefs of the afterlife and "the Bible", which is nothing more than a conglomeration of Jewish writings. I suppose God preserved all the good parts...
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  44

  IF THIS IS TRUE IT IS MASSIVE!!!!!!!!

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was speaking to a family member who is still a jw in very good standing and she told me that last week she was told by an elder of very good repute in my old congregation this:-.

  he has been told that any of the current governing body when they die will not be replaced!!!!!!!!!!.

  i cannot even begin to take this in!.

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  drew sagan

  This is not just unlikely to happen, it certainly will not happen. A bogus story to say the least. Not to say that some stupid rumour like this actually gets told, but that it actually has fact behind it is without question not a reality.
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  118

  I need proof for my wife that NW Translation is not correct

  by Albert Einstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what scriptures would you reccomend, to prove nwt is not reliable?.

  please help, i need a reason for my wife to start reading other translation.

  i want to start chronological reading of nt with her, to show her wtbs is not a mediator for us.. thanks.

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  drew sagan

  As long as your wife believes that the WTS is the "faithful slave" there is no convincing her that the NWT is "unreliable". If a person wants to believe in the narrative the WTS sells about itself, they will pretty much just make excuses for whatever you show them.

  Also, be careful what info you get off the net. A number of websites that criticize the NWT are written by christian fundamentalists who many times have arguments that are just as poor (e.g. the KJV is the 'real' inspiried version of the bible, johannine comma should be in the bible, ect)
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  4

  Calling any Joomla experts

  by Amha·’aret in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm updating a website to joomla at the moment.

  i'm getting on pretty well with it and am almost finished.

  only one job left really.

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  drew sagan

  like a photo gallery?

  There are lots off joomla extensions that will do this in a variety of ways:

  http://extensions.joomla.org/
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  38

  Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

  cannot find one anywhere.... .

  thank you in advance!.

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  drew sagan

  After 9 paragraphs of saying nothing they finally make their point in paragraph 10:
  
  "However, were all spirit-anointed Christians involved in overseeing the preaching work and in preparing spiritual food? No. The apostle Paul tells us: "Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they?" Not all perform powerful works, do they?" (1 Cor. 12:29) Although all spirit-begotten Christians engaged in the preaching work, only a very limited number-just eight different men-were used to write the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures."

  I think there are some things to point out here.
  
  Which of the things on this list would the WT actually accept that they are?

  • Apostles
  • Prophets
  • Teachers
  • Preformers of Powerful Works

  They would probably say that they are teachers but they also refer to non-anointed as teachers all the time as well. I suppose if pressed they would have to come up with some reason as to why the greek word for teacher in this instance meant more than just teaching from the scriptures but rather spirit directs blah blah blah

  So basically all the get from this verse is the idea that there can be different roles, but who cares about what the specific roles are.

  What effect should the above facts have on the ever-increasing great crowd who hope to live forever on earth? As part of the Kings belongings, they are happy to cooperate fully with the arrangements made by the Governing Body, which represents the "faithful and discreet slave."

  Don't you just love how they are always going to tell you how you are going to feel!
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  31

  african GB member, stop posting your crap.

  by daniel-p in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  title says it all.. .

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  drew sagan

  If you don't like the posts don't comment on them. They will dissappear quick enough. The fact that people post so many comments on his threads keeps him in business.
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  19

  Any Change on YMCA Policy?

  by bavman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had heard recently the wtbs may have changed their policy on the ymca.

  it would be helpful to me personally if they have.

  i did know of a couple of people in my last congregation who went but i also heard some elders talking against it.

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  drew sagan

  Sorry to hear about your situation no more kool aid

  The YMCA has changed so much over the years. In some areas it still functions as a vital social institution, in other areas its just another suburban recreation center. There is a lot of diversity to the YMCA and an article from the 1970's in no way can give a proper representation of the situation.

  In this I think is what should be understood. The Watchtower will never update this article. It is not their style (over the past 10 years or so especially) to name institutions specifically that members should not be involved with. Doing so would possibly elicit a response from the accused organization and that is publicity the Watchtower does not want. Additionally I belive they must feel that the YMCA is harmless as long as you are an active JW doing everything they want. Why rock the boat. If there are troubblemakers out there then this can be used as a weapon against them, otherwise it's an old position that can be ignored.

  That's the key. The enforcement of this position varies greatly from case to case. It seems the WTS wants to keep it that way.
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  36

  Debunking the "great crowd" of "other sheep" concept - new video

  by Awakened at Gilead in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  further research that i did in gilead that led me out of the borg.... .

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sypppyso6ae.

  enjoy!.

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  drew sagan

  Good video but in one important area I find it a bit lacking. In discussing the "great crowd of other sheep" I believe the grander point to be made is that the teaching is mainly a product of Watchtower history. Rather than see the teaching as simply a 'misinterpretation" it can eaisly be shown that the doctrine was heavily built around events during the 1920's. This approach is more directed towards breaking up the myth present in JWs minds that their doctirines come from "unbiased" bible study where individuals sit around and "let the Bible speak for itself".

  I was fuzzy on this history myself and so I started a topic a while back where some interesting discussion opened this up:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/173226/1/motivations-for-creating-the-Jonadabs

  I think my opinion is that rather than seeing the "other sheep" doctrine as either a "right or wrong" bible interpretation I see it as the product of a very biased and subjective experience. A person can take that wherever it leads them I suppose, but the facts remain that it's all subjective and in no way is "unbiased". In essence, the history of many Watchtower doctrines are rooted in historical events and not divine revelation. I don't quite believe that such a fact in itself is an attack on JWs (arn't all religions the product of some historical events?) but they sure will take it that way.
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  19

  Any Change on YMCA Policy?

  by bavman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had heard recently the wtbs may have changed their policy on the ymca.

  it would be helpful to me personally if they have.

  i did know of a couple of people in my last congregation who went but i also heard some elders talking against it.

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  drew sagan

  In our case we had been gone from the meetings for over 5 months. During that time we had a number of engagements with Elders, none of which were very plesent. They would say that they wanted to "encourage us" and then come over and tell us how terrible we were. I remember one Elder asking me:

  "So, what terrible thing did you do?"

  I believe what he was trying to ask was "What immoral action have you committed that is keeping you from the meetings, because people don't stay away for any other reason?!"

  Needless to say they were very angry at me. During this time I refused to cross the line and give them specific replies to questions such as "do you believe in the faithful slave". Because of this they were frustrated with me and my wife. When the YMCA thing came out it was an effective tool to get done what they wanted to do. If we had joined the YMCA and kept it to ourselves while attending meetings and field service most likely nothing would have happened. But we pissed them off and for that they decided to take action. Joke is on them, their religion sucks.

  Of course now my wife has no contact with her sister. This breaks the heart of her dad (non jw). He has made the comment that "now it's like he doesn't have a family".
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  19

  Any Change on YMCA Policy?

  by bavman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had heard recently the wtbs may have changed their policy on the ymca.

  it would be helpful to me personally if they have.

  i did know of a couple of people in my last congregation who went but i also heard some elders talking against it.

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  drew sagan

  No change. My wife was DF'd in 2007 for joining the YMCA. It basically was used as an excuse to DF (she voluntarily offered to cancel membership). They were angry she stopped attending meetings and because she refused to give them a definite answer in regards to if she would come back they moved to DF her.

  I had a conversation on the phone with a Watchtower representative at the time. He was a pretty big prick to say the least. He first told me that he "didn't have much time and would have to rush through explaning this" . I used some rather logical arguments that he avoided by sipmly stating the article from the 70's was still current. When pressed on the specific merit of those arguments that appeared in the 70's article (as well as points it ignored) he simply would ignore what I said and restate their position. Very unfriendly fellow, was pretty rude throughout the conversation.

  If you joined and don't tell anybody nothing will happen. If they find out something may or may not happen. It all depends upon the Elders. They decide how far to go on each individual case. I think it is the current "standing" a person has before the Elders (family relationships, history, friendships, willingness to support the WT, ect) that will determine what happens. The "rules" are bypassed many times for people on the Elders good side.

  For example, my wife offered to give up her YMCA membership and she was DF'd. An Elder on her JC had a daughter that got pregnant while not married and she wasn't DF'd (possibly private reproof, but possibly not even that).